Super-8 and sync sound

[John Adolfi]

What I was told is that certain sound cameras run so smooth and steady that crystal is unnessary. Such as the Nizo 6080.
That seems to make sense. He went on to say that the whole roll maybe off 1 frame by the end. Now whether this is true or not. Are most using mini dics or DAT to record the sound. Super-8 sound said that after the first of the year they will marry pic and sound onto your video transfer. But only if it is recorded on DAT. I'm being told that DAT is becoming passe and that mini disc is the way to go. Super-8 sound said that the Mini dics cannot register time code. Comments please.

[Nigel]

I use DAT and Nagra for recording sound. I have a MiniDisc that I use for sound effects. However all three are becoming obsolete. There are recorders that use no moving parts and record onto a hard disk like a computer. I am not to sure about these recorders but my sound mixer was telling me about them. Right now the high end Nagra system uses some sort of Card that holds all of the sound. These new recorders are pretty slick and I am just started looking into them. As for Super8 Sound--I would not trust those guys for a second. The lab I use will sync your dalies for you from both DAT and 1/4". Good Luck I hope that helped.

[Nigel]

By the way Harry Browne in 2004!

[phillipx1]

This is true, but up to a point. I shoot with a Nizo 4080 and it runs extremely smooth. My recorder is a Marantz PMD 430. Even though I should get them crystal synced, I have not yet had the need. They will hold perfect sync for about 40 seconds then start to drift slightly. This can easily be corrected by adjusting the tone control by a tiny bit...or....as I do, edit on the computer and adjust the sound in post. I've been using Adobe 5.1 and my films have had perfect sync. There are many articles on this type of synchronization in the matadirectory.

[rollemfilm]

I mentioned this in a previous post. I've used
pro-walkmans (sony) without crystal and Canon 514XL-s
cameras and maintained sync through out "most"
of the roll. If you Edit on an Avid system you
can program the audio to keep perfect sync.
The folks at the edit suite think this is a hoot.
but it works. Best to crystal anyway if you can
afford it.

[#Pedro]

Let me tell you my way to create a mixed soundtrack (sync, music, athmo...):
My camera flash contact is connected to a tape recorder via an impulse cable, recording one 1kH pulse per frame. I need the pulses more to FIND AGAIN the relevant recodings on the long tape than to maintain sync. After cutting the (silent) film, taking care not to cut the beginning frames of the sync sound szenes, I stripe it and record it with a camcorder to PC harddisk. The projector speed is controled with a Syncromat- controler with crystal. On the PC multimedia editor I create the soundtrack without the live sound parts, combining sound and image streams. This soundtrack I record to commag, with projector controled by Syncromat again. Afterwards I record all live sound to harddisk, edit it and superimpose it to the existing sound track on the film. The sync track of the second audio chanel is controling the projector speed using the Synchromat again.
Pedro

[Konton]

>There are recorders that use no moving parts and record onto a hard disk like a computer.

Are you talking about the Nomad Jukebox? http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox/
Isn't the hard drive a moving part? How would you resolve from this anyway?

[Nigel]

No it is not like a jukebox. These recorders use the same technology that they use for the flight data recorders in USA fighter jets. It uses no moving parts, a "hard drive" like a flash card or something. I am not a sound guy so I can not get too detailed. This technology is out there and coming soon. I saw one of the recorders in action and it was really cool. They slide it across a table where it then hit a wall and fell on the floor never skipping breaking or missing a beat. Plus it is recording sound all the time--when you hit the record button it takes the sound from the ten seconds prior as well. We will see what happens with it.